• What link do you make between your struggle as a trade unionist in France and struggles on an international scale, with the peasants of the South or US trade unionists for example?
Today, the fight against neoliberal globalization cannot be corporatist. It is a fight by everybody who is a victim of this form of globalization. We have to change the rules of the game. At the farming level for example, we have created an international structure which is called Via Campesina.
It includes peasants from every continent, who fight together for the same objectives. In Europe it involves a fight against the Common Agricultural Policy
The world struggle - an interview with Susan George with Sican taorde SUSAN George, a president of the Observatory on Globalization and the author of several works, most notably How the other half dies (1978), also spoke to Rouge on the struggle against neoliberal globalization. The interview was carried out by Eric Lafon. INTERVIEW
France *
• What is the difference between former movements like "ca suffat comme ci" and those of today?
The first difference lies in the importance of the coalitions and their widening. We are no longer in the configuration of gatherings of some organizations, but rather of the convergence of a multitude of forces.
The teacher, the farmer, the ecologist understand that beyond their own battles, they all are confronted with the consequences of globalization, and that if they fight alone they are, we are, sure to lose. The General Agreement on Trade and Services confirms that they have the intention of deregulating education, health, culture, audio-visuals and the environment. Moreover, if governments try to oppose this deregulation, technical means have been worked out to circumvent their political decisions.
The more we understand the level and extent of the offensive, the more we realize that convergences are imperative. We do not agree on everything, but we are convinced that we have common objectives and reasons to fight together. For me, this is the great innovation.
It is true at the national level, but it is true also on an international scale. National coalitions are coming together to create a true "international front". We will discuss that in Millau and we will fix an initiative to come at the time of France's presidency of the European Union, with precise objectives to be realized in each country, with whatever means are judged most suitable. In Geneva on June 22 comrades from the South and North will also meet for discussions of a strategic nature and workshops; a demonstration on Sunday and a symbolic action against the WTO will be organized
In Paris, the Attac committees in Paris and the suburbs are mobilizing for the meeting of the OECD on June 26. Then it will be Millau on June 30-July 1. The calendar is full, the action is sustained. I have not seen this in France since the Vietnam war. It's exhilarating. * International Viewpoint #323 July-August 2000 7
• CAN we speak, after Seattle, of a form of internationalism against the World Trade Organization?
You can't do Seattle or Washington every 3 months, and besides we won't be given the opportunity to do it. The various national movements are mobilized for different things. For the French, there is Millau which comes after Geneva. There was Bangkok, a meeting for which the Asians mobilized, in particular the Thais. The Koreans mobilize rather around their situation and their immediate economic problems. There are many mobilizations in Latin America.
Now, I don't know if we can say that all that is linked, but so far as the northern hemisphere alone is concerned, the situation has broadly evolved in this direction. Against the MAI (Multilateral Agreement on Investment), only France and Canada and some other countries had been strongly mobilized. Today, broad coalitions are being set up. It's the case in Italy, where there was a successful mobilization around a meeting of the OECD in Bologna.
For my part, I took part in the press conference announcing the creation of Attac-Germany, which has about sixty member organizations. The next rendezvous is Geneva, after the meeting of Unice on June 9th and 10th in Brussels. All these demonstrations give an idea of the variety of objectives and targets.
That is why they will do everything they can not to have any more inter-ministerial meetings under the conditions of Seattle. Moreover, the next meeting of this type will take place in Qatar. This movement has been launched, and it will not disappear. It is the reflection of a political awakening, of a comprehension that it is necessary to fight on the level of an international economy controlled by transnationals and some big institutions like the IMF, the World Bank or WTO.
• What are the strong points and the weaknesses of this anti-WTO movement against neoliberal globalization?
We have the numbers, we have the ideas. We lack organization, but this is being developed. We lack especially the means to reach a target as fuzzy as the European Commission. There is certainly Parliament, but that is far from being sufficient.
To influence the WTO, IMF, the World Bank, institutions where the possibilities of intervening democratically do not exist, we need to invent new means, new institutions. Because we cannot have confidence in the institutions which have power. Citizens must inform themselves on everything, however technical and difficult. Another strong point is the significant participation of the younger generations in the various mobilizations.
It testifies to an awakening of consciousness about what is at stake in this fight and a comprehension that the IMF and World Bank's attacks, conducted yesterday in the Third World countries, are happening in the West today. That the neoliberal offensive with which we are confronted does not relate only to the United States, but that European transnationals also press for deregulation, the smashing up of public services.
* Debt A S is usual after a G7 summit, the purpose of the autumn meeting of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank (WB) in Washington in September 1999 was to orchestrate the intentions of G7. We thus had a media campaign orchestrated in a masterly fashion by the international financial institutions: "don't worry, folks: the debt of the poor countries has been cancelled". The IMF and the WB were bold enough to replace Structural Adjustment Programmes (SAPs) with a new revolutionary terminology: the Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper (PRSP).
This time, there would be simultaneously debt cancellation and reduction of poverty. Between June 1999 and March 2000 there was an accumulation of announcements. In June 1999, in Cologne, the G7 announced $100 billion in cancellation of debts. In July 1999, Canada (a member of G7) said that it would cancel 100%. In September 1999, in Washington, what had been decided in June was announced once again.
A few days later Bill Clinton did better: he announced a 100% cancellation of debt for 36 poor countries. At the end of December 1999, Gordon Brown, the UK Chancellor of the Exchequer (Minister for Finance), also announced 100%. His French colleague, Sautter, did not want to be left behind and also announced 100% cancellation. At the end of February 2000 the Italian government joined Canada, the USA, the UK and France in announcing 100% cancellation. The Belgian government emerging from the June 1999 elections also declared its support for the decisions of June 1999.
Can one's reaction be anything other than delight? Hasn't the campaign for the cancellation of the Third World debt largely achieved its goal? No. Because the facts are obstinate: as of April 2000, that is ten months after the meeting of June 1999, only 3 out of 41 Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPCs) had benefited from debt relief: Bolivia, Uganda and Mauritania. In the best of cases, for these three countries, the average reduction of the amounts they will have to repay will be about 35%. A long way from the 90% announced in June 1999.
After cancellation, Mauritania, where 62% of the population is illiterate, will still have to devote a larger sum to repaying its debt than it will spend on education! Mozambique and Guyana, two countries Mozambique and Guvana two countries 8 International Viewpoint #323 July-August 2000